Ion Cristoiu: can you be a trustworthy man of the Services without being a covered officer?
Sebastian Ghita: there are many people in whom the services trust, the institutions trust the executives or shareholders of those companies without being covered officers. You can't lay a big blanket over Romania and to cover all. And then, however, we have to accept the idea that some people, some firms, some shareholders get to work for the State in various institutions without necessarily being connected to the Services. I know many companies and many younger people, newer on the market that I do not believe they have some connection with this idea with the covered officers.
- I get back. The CIA and the great secret services of the world have business men through which resolve certain operations. Can I consider you as one of the people through which the correct operations, through whose company the SRI has deployed operations? You don't have to tell me which.
- I don't know if necessarily the SRI, but remember that on one of the tapes...
- … You talked about bringing Nicolae Popa
- Yes, it happens. To say that this was a way of shaming Kovesi it’s one thing.
- Why the Romanian State couldn’t bring him and had to turn to a private firm? I want to understand something of the Romanian State thinking.
- It's not so simple to bring a citizen from a country to another, especially when there are extradition treaties, when that country is far, when cultural differences are large, when partnering with the Prosecutor or departments from there... Sometimes it's better not to involve, sometimes you don't have the means, other times it's a matter of speed... There are many elements that contribute to making a decision, "Let's see how we do an operation!"
- By the way, after you left, I wrote an article that is called: "Sebastian Ghita. The real bomb is that he left with many of the Services' secrets ". You've gone with secrets?
- No, but living there in Bucharest for 10-15 years and circling me in this environment, in these circles, it is likely that I have learned and know more things than other people who have not had this concern and that they haven't wanted to learn and to understand what the Romanian State means.
- I understand. Tell me who can guarantee me that a foreign secret service doesn't contact you here and doesn't ask for information?
- The same thing that ensures you I'm not contacted in Bucharest. Meaning it's not a matter of territoriality, but of man.
- Let's get back at that time... Tell me, have you seen the first record? You saw yourself on TV?
- I have not managed all the time to see the records when they were broadcast, but I've seen it all, obviously.
- And you had from the country ... You watched the feedback? You watched to see what the press is saying? Or said: I gave them and I mind my own business.
- I watched the news, but the issue of feedback in such a situation is the safe path towards perdition. I have avoided taking any feedback.
- The moment of your departure, last time you were seen in Romania, on 19 December, in the evening at an action, not to say party, of the SRI.
- It was an action; there was an usual meeting between members of the Commission, between all that had been in the Commission with the Management of the Service.
- I always have a replica, I say: epic. Tell us where it was!
- At K2. The leadership of the Service, the Director and first Deputy and deputies, come, shake hands, exchange a few words for an hour or two with those of the Commission who complete their mandate. I went at that meeting, seeking to look once again in the eyes of Florin.
- Did you know that he was the end of all actions?
- None of us are naive. Think that for 2-3 years, maybe more, maybe I was naive, I told him, I explained to him and Kovesi and Marius Iacob, and to Maior and others in the Commission: what happens to this man from Ploieşti and these guys. I did not know then that all prosecutors sat at a table, they falsified records, but I could see that there are things wrong. All these false witness, covered said: They make us do things that are not right. It's wrong". And I was telling Coldea everything and explain and he smiled, he laughed, he seemed surprised. And then I wanted to look once more in his eyes.
"There were some tense moments between Maior and Coldea"
- I ask the human side...
- Humanly speaking, I however did not imagine that after 2-3 years they would ignore me after so many things happened between us.
- The action against you, in gusts, began on 17 February 2015. When they called? When did they call you? When they called you then, did you know that Florian Coldea is behind the buttons?
- I know the system pretty well. What I couldn't accept was the replica he told all: I don't know- the guys from DNA. They went mad, those from DNA, and do not know what they are doing".
- Did you have since then, until you left, any discussion with him? That you knew.
- A hundred.
- And every time he said "Those from DNA"?
- Yes. He's a very serious guy, and generally well-prepared and he manages to convince everyone.
- At the meeting it was also Maior. What did Maior say?
- That those things must be checked.
- Coldea also said that those are crazy. Did you believe him?
- Neither I nor Major didn't believe him, but what could say to him, or do? There were even more dramatic moments, more tense, trying both Maior and I to open his eyes, to say that the world thinks and otherwise. That there are increasingly more people, journalists, business people, doctors, heads of hospitals. How many have not come to signal: "Gentleman's, however the situation becomes far too aggressive, too burdensome. If we steal something we should be caught, but not invent for the sake of the dossiers thieves we didn't do ". And here I want to separate things because many tend to put George Maior and Florian Coldea in the same pot. They aren't in the same situation.