Ion Cristoiu: Florian Coldea might say, as he is messianic, that actually there was a corrupt county and that he had proposed, for the sake of this fight against corruption, to break the County.
Sebastian Ghiță: And when he'll hear records with his people doing business, moving budgets, forcing builders to make villas for them, repairing roads, what will Mr. Coldea say?
- So these workers were also corrupt.
- Why do you think I called them "DNA barons"? They became barons instead of barons. They didn't arrest the barons for the sake of anti-corruption; they arrested them to steal more.
- I found this, while documenting and I quote. Someone named Daniel Florea says in January 30, 2017 that by the end of 2015, Codruța Kovesi met at Strâjnicu, Prahova, with Prosecutor Marius Iacob, with the leadership of DNA Ploiesti, with Col. Sabin Iancu for your operation. I do not understand.
- There was a rumor about this in Ploiesti, but I don't have any concrete elements.
- I'll ask one thing. 17 February 2015, the first dossier. I think it's a crucial time for you. You had a filling that something will happen? You felt the preparation around you?
- I found out that they were preparing this.
- And were you ready?
- I wasn't prepared to see what I saw. Papers... I had learned that I was going to be summoned to the Prosecutor's Office, I didn't think that I will be put under judicial control, that I won't be allowed to leave the country.
- Onea and Negulescu: did you know them before?
- I don't think Negulescu was there then. However, if you look, many of the samples from the dossiers, of the hearings, discussions with witnesses, were done by this Negulescu from another Prosecutor's Office, took the samples to DNA and everything was a violation of laws and procedures.
- The files followed in the gusts. Five, you have?
- Five, six. You've heard Onea and Negulescu: "we'll do the same to Ghita as we did to Udrea. We take him down, we ask six times the waiver of immunity, make files for stealing laundry on the wire, and for rape; we make files until we kneel him".
- He gives you judicial control.
- They weren't able to arrest me, because I was a parliamentarian.
- Only on March 23 2016, the assault takes place when he required in a new file the waiver of immunity. What happened?
- After I racked up more data and elements about what was happening and after this Portcoală began to tell on the left and the right, throughout the city, that he made an understanding with those in Bucharest, "with Mrs. K, that upstairs, it was decided, and that's it, Ghita is dead, but he does not know, in the weeks after he's finished "... you heard it yourself.
- Then a new stage was decided.
- I could hear him to. Got drunk through the bars, restaurants. I, however, was born in that city, I lived there, people loved me, I've been good with everyone, and everyone was telling me what this screwy speaks. And then, sure, since I wasn't that naive, in Coldea's Commission, I told others it's not OK what goes on out there, that they falsify evidence. And had a small conflict with taunts, with pressures. Let Ponta go sign his resignation, to go make an understanding with Iohannis. I said, Mr. Coldea, or Florin, if you believe that our children grew up together — mine, yours and Ponta's - and you think you're a great player or that this way you can tell me to tell on Ponta because I will escape and make a deal with the President, and understand that Ponta must leave, you are damn wrong. It means that you don't know me at all. You can ask me many things. And maybe we did along the life many things together, but surely you can't let me go home, to look at my boys who stayed close to Ponta's Irina for eight years, and for me to tell on their father and to hurt them. I can't do that. And for what? For a political game? Don't you have enough? What world don't you fit in? What money, what powers? As to justify and kill myself as a man.
- I have seen the operation against you to get to Ponta, in 2015. Klaus Iohannis was President. You said somewhere that the system wanted to give Iohannis "my Government". What did you mean by "my Government"? (...) Because the majority was from PSD. Why did they chose to take Ponta out, why bother?
- Because, however, if you remember, PSD and Ponta played pretty well politically and economically. Televisions and free press managed to put all these things in a good light and counteract the other side of the press who made black propaganda from morning to evening.
- But why Ponta? For all PSD Government remained? Why was Ponta the target?
- Because he did not listen to them and because the President on the one hand, and Coldea and others on the other hand, wanted the Prime Minister Job. Money and power, there. Perhaps they wanted a man of their own.
- Yes. I think that some wanted Dâncu as Prime Minister; Dragnea wanted himself, Iohannis wanted, as the Embassy did, on Cioloș. Each had his game. And this is what happened that year after this game.
“I believe that Coldea with Mr. Dancu have a very good relationship.”
- How did you comment then the leaving of Ponta? He was forced?
- As early as March that small servants from DNA Ploiești gave me judicial control, so I can no longer talk to Ponta either directly or indirectly, and that is why I am sorry and that I haven't been around him to help him with what ideas I had received, with the experience I won. The fact is that Ponta alone and influenced in various ways by Gabi Oprea, by Dragnea and others, by rumors, simply decided to give up. But you know that he was proposed for "cutting" a long time before. He ran through Turkey... Ponta did all sorts of naughty things, as to the delay and put them in difficulty. Ponta played a very clever political game. You remember that the ceasing of that Government for a year was a trap. No one came out of nowhere, "Minister Zero", "Earth's wisdom", Ciolos did nothing.
- Coldea would have wanted on Cioloș or on Dâncu?
- I think that Coldea and Mr. Dîncu have a very good relationship, are very good friends.
- And in this equation what was Dragnea playing? He also wanted.
- In that battle Dragnea was persuaded to provide the majority in Parliament, Dîncu longed to be Prime Minister and became first Deputy Prime Minister, and Iohannis has accepted this game between PSD, PNL, USR and who else was in Parliament, provided that he is the U.S. Embassy protégé, Mr. Cioloș, Prime Minister. And that's what happened.
- With the support of PSD.
- Yes. I remember that Ambassador Klemm, in several areas, with journalists, it is not a secret, said very clearly "we want Cioloș, I want Cioloș, I hope he will reach Prime Minister". And they also wished that after parliamentary elections Cioloș to be Prime Minister, but it wasn't possible, PSD has taken 50%.
- And Liviu Dragnea - how has he agreed not to have a Prime Minister from PSD?
- Liviu Dragnea is a clever politician and knows when to play and when not to. He understood Ponta's game and agreed to give Iohannis and others the Government as to show them how good they are in governance. Those have been good at zero, and the PSD Government took afterwards that 50% in elections.
"Monica Macovei was also one of Coldea's favorites"
- I take advantage of the meeting. I was very much concerned about the elections in 2014...
- There were a couple of moments then. Don't forget the pressures made then upon Gabi Oprea. Don't forget the pressures made upon Tariceanu. The time of installation of "my Government" is indeed one with many misadventures, a set of loopholes and events at the limit the democratic rules, but you see, if you do not follow the game as they all play in the West, the result from a political incest from this it's a Governmental abortion.
- You've been in the midst of the battle for 2014 presidential election. I wrote that Florian Coldea bet from the on Klaus Iohannis. I was wrong, wasn't I?
- There are also other theories. I tend to think that Monica Macovei was one of Coldea's favorites. Let's think about what would have happened if Ponta would have obviously emerged first in the first round, Klaus Iohannis emerged in second place, and third place Monica Macovei, in front of Elena Udrea and Tariceanu. I wasn't the only one who mentioned this theory, Mr. Tariceanu and Udrea mentioned it also. Consider whether Horia Georgescu from ANI with the High Court did not stated to Iohannis "Sir, you stole those houses, you are not compatible, you got out of the house with your left foot, that's it, you went for a walk, Ponta will compete with Macovei". And our friend, former President Traian Basescu would have thought "Oh, and if Nuti comes out on three, I declare myself Prime Minister of the right, and Nuți President, and so the right will win, we get rid of Ponta". And you should know that these theories are not far from the truth. If Elena Udrea emerged on three, Basescu would have pitched on Coldea to remove Iohannis. The Service, and Maior and Coldea and now Director Hellvig, we can blame them, quarrel them, not to agree with them, but also along with those from SIE and other institutions, are often placed in front of situations by the Presidents or heads of institutions or parties, which we don't know about. And often Maior, Coldea, did well and have made great efforts in the face of an awesomely strong Traian Băsescu. That the President had all kind of situations in the two mandates. And management of the end of Basescu's mandate was a huge challenge. OK, I don't like Coldea, I don't like that he left those from Ploiesti to fake files. Often came the question: what do you want with Coldea? The answer was: If I tell you for three years that they are falsifying, you really don't mind me? Well either you knew and you were their Chief, you along with Codruța, or... and I don't believe they are fools. And then of course I don't like the way they behaved in relation to me, but I don't consider them, nor Coldea, neither Kovesi foolish or unable.
"The appeal against Buşoi was made by someone at Cotroceni"
- Do you know any time when these plans of knives and glasses, as the poet was saying, from the office did not manage? For example, how did they lose Bucharest for Gabi Firea?
- Here I'm convinced that President Iohannis, who was with with Mr. Bușoi on the street, and Director Hellvig, edified. And they realized that any candidate gave the right, until Nicușor Dan became the favorite of builders in Bucharest... Yes, Nicușor Dan takes money from certain companies from Bucharest to withdraw from processes. It is public information, it's in the media.
- So Nicusor Dan was the favorite?
- Nicuşor Dan was the favorite, and then PNL... Poor guys had little to lose the yellow from flag because of the DNA. They named Bușoi he had a file at DNA in two days. It was funny the operation. Afterwards Marian Munteanu declared himself security at once. I don't remember who the third was. They convinced Orban with Urdăreanu; you should look in that folder. That Urdăreanu was sent to challenge Ludovic Orban. From a list of informers... Who do we remove? Orban. Come here Mr. Tibi. You know how many problems you have, house arrest... you should denounce on Ghita, Orban, and go on with the challenge, that's illegal. SRI would never afford to do this.
- What you say is very interesting. The President goes to the city with Bușoi. Suddenly Bușoi gets a file. On 30 December 2013 was the complaint, at Cotroceni.
- It turns out that despite the fact that President Iohannis was with Bușoi walking through town to admire the town, however, the appeal against Bușoi was made by someone at Cotroceni.
- So, once, poor Iohannis was walking with Bușoi...
- No one would have found out, if a resentful citizen didn't appear, to publish this complaint in Evenimentul Zilei. This is how Bușoi learned.
- At some point there was one Busoi that was supported by President Iohannis. And, on 30 December...
- An outraged citizen presented himself to the Editorial Board of EVZ and says “do you know that at DNA there is a complaint that this guy stole the owl from Cotroceni?"
- Oh, so the complaint already existed.
- And EVZ said, how do you know? Wait I'll show you the documents. Here is the complaint from the Cotroceni, DNA was notified and the DNA was notified immediately also that Bușoi is penal.
- So the indignant citizen said that he made a complaint to Cotroceni and we understood that in one day it arrived at DNA. Extraordinary. And without Iohannis knowing.
- And bang, file for Bușoi. Bușoi was out of the game.
- That's the underground State.
"They also accept the fact that they are not so good with politics"
- After that came into play Marian Munteanu.
- And, all of a sudden, from the gloomy vastness of history, arose the denunciation of security and he also left. After that Mr. Urdareanu, informer came up with the idea to throw dirt on Orban.
- And Nicușor Dan had to remain. Why didn't he remain?
- Nicusor Dan has candidate. In such incestuous games only aborted are coming out: USR, TFL, Nicușor Dan. Political aborted.
- What people should understand is that they have started to work each other and at one point Gabi Firea won.
- Sometimes Ponta told Coldea "look, accept the fact that you're best at arrests, spies, at all you want, but you are not so good with politics, leave us also, at parties, to compete. No longer play Draughts with us, leave us in peace". Coldea has many qualities, but it's not the most skillful arranger.
- What I wanted to show is that sometimes these plans so well made end like hell.
- In all these matters, or many of them, Maior, as well as he could, between a President and a Coldea closely bonded, Maior has been trying all the time to carve, to attract attention, to push things in a democratic area, to ask for calming the situation, to ask for less involvement. Sure, the world wonders if he knew why he didn't do something. He wasn't able to do something. If Basescu and Coldea felt something moving against them, they would have thrown out Maior whistling. Maior didn't really have place to turn between the two. This was the stark reality.
- It was like the sandwich. Traian Băsescu was working with Coldea...
- Every day. And with many others. Traian Basescu was extremely shrewd in making use of the levers of the State. He would go out with Coldea from time to time, called Codruța to Cotroceni, met with Livia Stanciu, we all know what happened.
* * *
Sebastian GHITA, interview with Cristoiu: "I went the last time at K2, seeking to look once more in the eyes of Coldea."
The first episode of the EVZ series has as central figure Sebastian Ghiță. Ion Cristoiu obtained sensational information concerning the political games behind the scene, but also the most desired confirming of the allegations that Sebastian Ghiță made before he left for Serbia. Today, at 21:00, you can watch on the www.EVZ.ro the moment of the interview when Sebastian Ghiță shows a photo that persuaded Ion Cristoiu that his interlocutor didn't lie and that he was close to people in the State.
In December 20, 2016, more than one year ago, the public opinion in Romania was awakened by breaking news that all the news televisions broadcast. Sebastian Ghita, former deputy and member of the Commission for the control of SRI, television owner, top businessman, fled the country. Not even eight days have passed and, on the evening of 28 December 2016 in prime time, a new bomb explodes, which counteracts the first: a first registration in a series of eight is broadcast in which Sebastian Ghita, the fugitive-as he is already named, makes staggering disclosures about the parallel State. The series ended on 16 January 2017.
As a result of the disclosures, the next day, on January 17, 2017, the almighty general Florian Coldea, first Deputy Director of SRI, is dismissed and discharged after years at the head of SRI.
From 16 January 2016, Sebastian Ghita, though at the end of the last episode promised that he would return with the disclosures, has not done that, he remained silent, and although sensational, those disclosures had a big problem: their author was missing, the press, the public opinion has not been able to ask questions, could not sort things out in relation to many things told by Sebastian Ghita.
Some of these things were announced as to be proved-in the future. Sebastian Ghita has not proven them anymore. As it is, for example, the famous photo or film about the presence of Codruţa Kovesi at his home or, as the journalists say, in a vineyard, it was a cellar there. Many things had details that needed to be explained.
At that time, after disclosures and even in their time, I have written many articles. I considered, and I repeat with all responsibility, that these are crucial disclosures in the battle between what I call the healthy forces in Romania, and the dictatorship of the messianic sergeants.
Being curious and aroused by those disclosures, I gladly took the invitation made by Evenimentul Zilei to travel to Belgrade and to have a discussion with Mr. Sebastian Ghita about those disclosures. The way of work, you’ll see, is as follows: I'll give you quotes from the records at that time and after each quote I'll have a discussion with Mr. Sebastian Ghita regarding the puzzlement that stirred each record and with evidence that he will bring.
“I’m not a fugitive”
Ion Cristoiu: So, hello, Mr. Sebastian Ghita!
Sebastian Ghita: Hello, Mr. Cristoiu!
I want to tell you my pleasant surprise. I know you when you have left the country after that grim picture that all the televisions gave when they caught you at Belgrade with beard. You look very well, young man, you've lost weight. But what about that photograph? Why did you accept to appear?
I've never agreed for it to appear, but in the vortex awakened that evening in the restaurant, one of the policemen made a photo, in a hurry. And then that photo came out slightly distorted.
But, didn’t you have a beard?
You were undercover or why?
I was a ran-away. I was gone and, sometimes, to not be recognized, a change helps.
Anyway, I'm going to tell you something, not out of politeness, and for those who are looking at this series of now. I'm really glad you have not changed at all. You are happy, as I have said, but not irresponsible. Cheerful, you are optimistic, do not seem at all a fugitive, if I can say so.
I’m not a fugitive.
"A man should have the chance to defend his life"
The press gave you the pet-name fugitive.
Yes, and maybe they ought to think better about how well they used it and how they will use this term. Because it's time, I think, to say very clearly that when a man's life is in danger, that man must have at least the chance to defend his life. Today, after a year, I think the whole Romania sees what thoughts had that so-called Prosecutor Mircea Negulescu, as encouraged by his superiors and colleagues.
Not only him. There are many, many in the meantime disclosures that show that Negulescu was already a prototype of an investigator.
Yes, and I couldn't pretend not to know that he had prepared a cell for me, that he had put some bullies there, a cell with miserable conditions, that he had moved Blejnar from a cell to another only to make room for me, that he had been a few days earlier at the prison from Câmpina to prepare the place where he was sure the judges will send Ghita.
I can't ignore that he praised in front of Andreea Cosma and others that he will burn me, that I'm finished, that I'm a walking dead. If I couldn't convince anyone in Bucharest that the man is downright crazy and it's able to do wrong, what else could I have done? Than go out of their way.
Mr. Sebastian Ghita, I have here... I think I know you better than Stalingrad. This is my job, I read much. I don't want to, you now... I must disagree ... you shouldn't leave the impression, at least not to me you can't, and that it was one Negulescu that had something with you. It was a whole machine, we'll talk, that came upon you. Negulescu was a cog in there, better polished.
But I do not want to accredit the idea.
I’ll accredit it.
...that a whole State and whole institutions kill people in Romania. That it kills a career destroys families, that are sometimes inattentive to the rights and freedoms of the people, that's one thing. Negulescu was exaggerated and anyone is entitled to abstain from such a...
"I want to ask my friend Codruta if she plotted against me"
Ion Cristoiu: I understand. The comment with the machine belongs to me. Let's get started. So, the registration from 28 December 2016 begins as follows: "If the record began to run it means that things are no longer good at all and it means that no argument and no reason will make me quiet". The tape began to run on December 28, 2016 evening. You have left the country on the night of 19-20 December 2016. So 10 days have passed. Why was aired after 10 days?
Sebastian Ghita: first to protect those who aired the tape or who commented it or those who received it. Because you saw what happened, they were called and followed by the police, Prosecutor's Office. Journalists, directors... I decided that one of the mechanisms by which those tapes, CDs, Flash drives appear on television to be an envelope, sealed and left at the entry, or in an Office, or at the gate, so that it doesn't get every time in the same place.
It's clear that you set a curfew when you said: that's it, give them!
No one would refuse a white envelope in which came a stick. There's was a huge interest so I didn't have any fear...
You are a man with experience and I am newsman. It's clear that you didn't place an envelope and that it was found by those and denied it. In the end... Of course, we don't want any trouble for the television. Those watching have to understand that, actually, you gave a signal at some point. I don't think they said: let's see! So it may occur.
No, but if you look at the events then, immediately in Romania came the days before Christmas, after Christmas. Or, in my mind, and I am convinced that in the minds of those who decided to broadcast one day or another an episode, was the idea that on Christmas people mind their own business and other issues in Romania and the impact wouldn't be so great.
You taped yourself?
Well it's pretty easy to set a camera and to shoot a video with the technology of today.
"I didn't know if these people would drive over drive me or not"
Why 8 episodes and not 6 or 10?
Because I neither planned this flee or departure and because I did not have time to say more. And because it was still unclear and uncertain if this character with the elite unit and other characters that have explained now in the records. Perhaps the State's Attorney's Office will verify if Mrs. Codruta Kovesi coordinated Onea and Negulescu or if they just used her name. Someday, I'm curious, when I'll meet my friend Codruta, I'll ask her if indeed she plotted, she thought together with those two characters to do everything she did to me in these years.
Why did you make ... I mean what came into you?
You asked me why on the 28th? Because before it was Christmas.
No. Why did you start to register? Meaning you've gone. Before you left, you decided to register.
Mr. Cristoiu, you've seen this Portocala. Do you understand that I was afraid of this man?
Let's get over Portocala because we turn him into some sort of Mihai Viteazu. Once again I ask you. You've given eight records. Before you left you decided to make this action.
What did you want from it? From this series. Why did you make it?
I didn't know if these people are going to catch me or not, if they will harm me or not, if they would drive the car over me or not, whether someone would beat me in jail or not. And then I wanted to make sure that I call attention to the things that happen to me and that can happen to any man in Romania. To point out that we are no longer in the days of the Security before the 60's and that people can no longer be put in jail, beaten, humiliated, tortured, God knows what's in their minds. And try to say things as I've lived and I've seen them myself, not as are chewed the machines that scatter rumors and propaganda from their units…
"I know what embassies they have worked with and why Kovesi doesn't leave"
And why have you stopped? Why haven't done 200? You left the impression, not incidentally I asked, that you've stopped the moment Coldea fell. This was the purpose of the operation?
This wasn't necessarily the goal, but I expected to occur at the level of the Romanian intelligence service, some question marks. Not all the officers there, and especially Romanian officers there, not everyone knew what Florian Coldea does, what do others who worked with him and I thought, frankly, that at some point some of the internal mechanisms of verification will bring clarity. And it happened.
Were you surprised that Codruta Kovesi didn’t fall?
No. I know these people well. I know who they are in Romania, I know what embassies they've worked with, I know what foreign services they've worked with, I know what strong support they have and It's clear also why Codruta Kovesi does not leave today. But it's not my business.
I'm not the one called to clean up the society. These are issues that need to be made by the Director of the service, the President of State, the heads of both Chambers, the committees in Parliament. In the end you should know that, however so, in an incipient state, our democracy, the mechanisms, systems, harder, tougher, but are beginning to work.
Sebastian Ghita about the last evening in Romania: "Georgian Pop was pulling me up by the ear"
The first episode of the EVZ series has as central figure Sebastian Ghiță. Ion Cristoiu obtained sensational information concerning the Romanian political games behind the scene, but also the most desired confirming of the allegations that Sebastian Ghiță made before he left for Serbia. Today, from 21:00, you can watch on www.evz.ro the moment of interview when Sebastian Ghiță shows a photo that persuaded Ion Cristoiu that his interlocutor that he doesn't lie and that he was close to people in the State.
Ion Cristoiu: Tell me... I'm trying to imagine the evening of 19. You were determined to leave when you've gone?
Sebastian Ghita: No.
Eee. How? You had such a revelation?
Interesting, a real sensational disclosure. What influenced you at that party that made you leave?
The attitude towards me.
All those present there. I realized that Georgian Pop, who until then was a little boy from the Embassy, was pulling me up by the ear. Other older senator was petting me on he the head, more so he almost slapped me. It was obvious that everyone there had been in some way or another informed that the next day I will be arrested, that I have no chance, do not escape, that everything's ready. Yet I am a man who can realize when something bad happens.
“Christmas was coming and my name was Ghita”
Someone was saying that out there, at some point, you have said something to Florian Coldea. I'm telling you what the version that circulated after you left was. That you went there in a last effort to get rid of the arrest the next day. So you realized they had this attitude towards you...tapping on your shoulder...
Suddenly Christmas was coming and my name was Ghita. I was as Portocala said: dead, only I didn't know. Still alive walking on the streets, but I was walking dead. They were close to taking the measures for my clothes. It was a very unpleasant feeling, I told you, to fear for your life is not a simple matter. I know well what can happen and what not.
I was referring to the atmosphere. You were already a walking dead without being arrested.
Yes, everyone sympathized with me. They looked through me and I was concerned, I was worried about the situation, because though you'd expect in institutions, in life, in society to meet at some point judges, heads of institutions, people called to defend citizens and you only find a strong desire to see the other dead.
In a normal democracy they might not know. Theoretically the prosecutor...
I told you, when Florian explain this issue to others I burst into laughter. When before the elections took Ilie Sarbu from a hotel, the candidate's father-in-law, with the Special Forces, who could have told me they didn't know. Or when they chased Ponta's mom and sister, Prime Minister, with false evidence and false folders didn't anybody know?! Portocala wouldn't decide on his own to chase the Prime Minister's family when the Prime Minister was in America at the Pentagon?
Or when they took Buşoi out from the game at the local elections.
We've seen what happened in the local elections. You've asked, during the discussion, if I consider myself or I considered a trusted man of Romanian State or institutions. I think that as long as people have voted me in Parliament, I ended up in the SRI Commission, as long as I was a part of all these projects for the development of information infrastructure in the State today, I can say that I'm a man of trust in Romania. I can't believe that a citizen can fight with his country, with the institutions in his country. I think just that, slowly, as we find out the truth regarding those forged folders I can get back.Citește mai departe ...